Establish the laser line at some known reference point above the highest spot on the floor. This slight difference becomes an issue during construction work. When laying your asphalt shingles onto the subfloor…..do you need to place some space between the shingles to accomodate for any expansion later on? 3. Any time you are adding weight to a floor, there can be a loading concern. Thanks for the great write up. My biggest problem seems to be that the floors are quite a bit higher at the edges near the walls. There are no cracks in the sheetrock which leads me to believe this was there when the house was built. Luan is a thin, pinkish, wood-like product and is lightweight. I was worried about load. and are their any danger of some kind of fumes coming from the something that has tar in it?? The National Wood Flooring Association observes, “ there is a difference between a subfloor that's flat and one that's level. Hindsight is 20/20, and given the nature of my particular situation, were I to do this project again, I would probably jack the house up and get it closer to level from the crawlspace before using so many shingles. Sean, our brilliant contractor-type friend (the same genius who helped us remake over our barn) had the idea to simply use luan to fake the plank look. Drywall Screws used to attach Luan Plywood should be used with wood glue to improve effectiveness. If it will not be in contact with a lot of water any wood glue will do. Of course before you proceed with any home improvement product, you should check with your flooring manufacturer before you proceed with installation to confirm. Brilliant. I worked from 3 layers at the deep end up to one layer. We used a combination of Luan, 3/8 plywood and shingles to even everything out. Then I stumbled across this page. This is my plan. I've layed over luan in the past, when it was level and had no uneven edges. This procedure is WAY faster than gridding out the room with masons line (i.e. So you have a home renovation project at home you need to complete, and are trying to determine what type of underlayment to use for your basement flooring. Been thinking about this for a while now, and I guess the answer would be a table saw or a miter saw (compound) which are not only safe, but they are very accurate for the do-it-yourself home renovation specailist. In general, plywood does not add strength to a floor, except that it can help distribute the load from the center of a floor to the edges and to nearby joists, which tends to increase strength a bit. https://www.oneprojectcloser.com/hardwood-flooring-stapler-review-the-duo-fast-200-s/. I can’t thank you enough for sharing this! Their length and breath dimensions are 1.2 m x 2.4 m (4 feet x 8 feet). -Level the floor with the roofing material Do I understand correctly that the dip is in the middle of the room? We've been told that laminate flooring requires the floor to be level but that vinyl flooring is more forgiving. These specs apply to wood or concrete subfloors, Boone says. I realize that I would have to caulk the spaces where the plywood meets. I didn’t know that room was out of level before I completed the 5 by 9 small bath room where I put ¼” backer board and self-leveling concrete to resolve a 3/8” out of level in 6 feet of the 9 feet (I hope this isn’t confusing). The plywood adds stiffness and stability to the floor. I am trying to flatten one of the floor and at some point I need to use two layers and at some place one layer of shingle. I used 20 inches. This will work regardless of room temperture, and will lock out moisture if that is a concern of yours as well. You can see it in the photos in Fred’s post above. I’ve been accused of over explaining. The existing subfloor was run perpendicular to the joists. Only issue is the thinset application. You won’t be able to hear any grit at all. In the crawlspace below my house temp never goes above 80F, even when the ambient is 100+F outside. You can install one of the smoother tile backerboards with an appropriate tile thinset, then weight, and/or spot nail with concrete nails (to hold it down till the thinset sets). We used self leveler to level the concrete slab in our basement with great success. Great write up. Thank you, Fred, and to all who contributed questions and information. I mapped out (contoured) the floor and have regions of 1/8″-1/4″ dips between trusses. This is well outside the tolerance for hardwood flooring, which should be no more than 3/16″ variation over 8 feet. Amoung Manufactuers of Vinyl Flooring, Hardwood Flooring, Tile Flooring, and Laminate Flooring, the choice is clear, and Luan is the top pick. http://www.dura-foam.com/resources/foam-roofing/modified-bitumen-offgassing/. Sounds like you simply need to remove the existing linoleum. I was amazed at the quality, and the finish. For roofing you may use plywood sizes available in 3/8 inch. When I started I purchased several sheets. You can see the dramatic slope on just one part of the floor in this picture. It’s also SO much less expensive than real tongue and grove planks–which in a … I used asphalt shingles to level the floor, screwed down 3/8in plywood with long drywall screws and covered it all with felt paper before nailing down the hardwood. Glue ripped up sheets of kraft paper, masking paper, or any paper to the floor, stain (or not), and then coat with a bunch coats (4-6) of water-based Varathane (no smell, fast dry, durable). Therefore, after flattening the floor I will be laying 1/2″ plywood over the shingles. When you buy a batch of luan wood plywood sheets, and you see that one is much darker than the other there is a simple solution which just involves using a darker stain to even out the appearance, I mean its a small trick but it works, and the luan pieces look great, in addition to being economical to use as well. Once in a while we use Type 1 Luan underlayment here and there because it measures about 3/16" for matching adjoining floor levels; we don't like to use Ardex or other leveling goop when we don't have to. Would you recommend I use the shingle approach or lift up the subfloor and shim the joists? Perhaps that’s a suggestion. I don’t think the floor will be spongy – shingles don’t have any “give” to them if you lay them out as we did, so you should be good there. If luan plywood is warping, try using nails/screws and concrete adhesive to maintain the positioning of the luan underyment and prevent buckling of your finished floor. What size screws do i use? Instead of stacking sheets of shingles to raise a very low area (3/4 or greater drop), could I use a piece of OSB plywood for fill to get it close, then use levelquick and or shingles to feather out the edges? Al, Have you ever heard of laying cork under hardwoods? For example if you need 2 layers of shingles then try and space out the taper length so that it is not as abrupt. Ply is used instead of plain wood because of plywood's resistance to cracking, shrinkage, splitting, and twisting/warping, and because of its generally high strength. No manufacturing specifications support its use or gauge its performance as an underlayment, Plywood Underlayment Installation Instructions for Vinyl and Other Flooring (Halex Plywood Products). I want to remove all of them before I screw the wood stick I cannot access the underside due to a low crawlspace. Thanks for the information. My question: 3. The best option is to use ring shank nails which are made exclusively for this purpose. If you're wondering how to level your floor, you've come to the right place to learn about floor leveling techniques using self leveling compound and more for both wood and concrete subfloors. This is very labor intensive. Bending plywood is very simple and convenient to use as it does not require any special knowledge, experience, or equipment. again, not an expert, but after hiring someone to fix my foundation wall that was old red brick and crumbling causing a 3” drop in my kitchen floor, I learned enough to be able to do the rest of the fixes. Sometimes the joists in the Attic are only made to carry a ceiling load not a full floor load. Bret, I very much appreciate you adding this to the discussion as I had not seen it before. It's quality is unsurpassed, and it is extremly durable and long-lasting. Lay a long level "downhill" on the floor, with one end of the level on the level part of the floor and the other end at the lowest point. Start in one corner of the room and lay a full sheet of luan perpendicular to the direction of the subfloor panels. We used 90# roll roofing instead of shingle tabs and have been completed for over 2 months with new Hardwood installed over it (in the heat of the summer….No smell whatsoever! The room currently has carpet. the floor tiles became loose, cracked and ugly looking over about 2 decades of use. Amoung Manufactuers of Vinyl Flooring, Hardwood Flooring, Tile Flooring, and Lam, Installing Vinyl Tiles Over Existing Vinyl Tile Hallway - Luan Thickness and Sizing, Installing Vinyl Tiles Over an Existing vinyl Tile Hallway. But you could try using strips of luan (1/8" plywood), cut to fit that gap as large as possible, so long as they're still underneath your level (a high spot would be worse IMO). Nothing has to be perfect. If not, I adjusted with the felt. The custom cuts were difficult to get under the door trim/casing in come cases as I didn’t remove the door trim (I had JUST painted it and didn’t want to!). For example, if a person who is into woodworking, needs to put up 1/2" plywood shelf into the dado cut of the shelf standard, then he will find a noticeable gap making the shelf slightly sloppy in the dado. Now the entire flooring of ceramic tiles needs to be torn out and replaced. 5) For self-leveling concrete, maybe take a look at this article: https://www.oneprojectcloser.com/self-leveler-for-tile-over-a-large-area/. For example, the worst areas on the first level were as low as one inch near interior bearing walls. Can we use felt and then carpet over again? The trick here is to cut the plywood sheets into tiles, about 4x4. Most low spots can be mapped out similar to a topographical map, and doing it this way is very, very useful to me as I’ve done most of it with overlapping layers of tar paper (see #4). It is flexible, inexpensive, workable, and re-usable, and usually can be manufactured locally. You can then spread it out on the floor in the affected areas. I do admit sniffing shingles on isle two at Lowe’s raised some eyebrows of unsuspected fellow shoppers :)Thanks for the article. How to Install a Subfloor With Luann Plywood, When installing luann, you can place the laminate directly over the luann plywood. The floor is not level or square, built in the 70's. (more time). Soft spots could be indicative of a poor underlayment. It is FLAT, even better than I hoped for. If luan plywood is warping, try using nails/screws and concrete adhesive to maintain the positioning of the luan underyment and prevent buckling of your finished floor. My current subfloors are 19/32 OSB, which is not sufficient according to the manufacturer. Once the underlayment is up, you'll need to treat the floor to get rid of … Near the front of this fireplace, the depression is almost 3/4″, so we’ll have to stack the shingles over one another. I wouldn’t do it, though if you were FANATICAL about leveling using shingles and the felt it might be possible, especially if you just had minor spots to fill. The shingles and felt are stapled into place, so they shouldn't shift. Really glad to hear your floor is doing exactly as you want it to. I need to get the floor as flat as possible to avoid planks separating. Each span is approximately 14 feet. Depending on the situation, you can either sand down areas of the subfloor that are too high, or install shims beneath the subfloor so that the entire floor is brought up to the same level. What a great site. Do not use hundreds of shingles indoors, especially next to heat sources. Scrub the floor to remove any debris from the floor before applying a very fine layer of motor or cement to the vinyl flooring this will serve as the base to apply the new top floor. I am having trouble visualizing based on what you’ve described here. This was a novel idea to us, but it made sense. I’m laying down plywood and then doing the ‘paper bag’ floor look, which will be pretty much air tight. My subfloors (with new 3/4 plywood) is a mess due to old floor joists beneath. staples with heat-activated glue (created by the drive friction). We are remodeling an old house that was built in 1905. BC plywood over the old subfloor, using construction adhesive and driving 1-1/4-in. At this point you have the choice to make as to whether you wish to use glue to adfix the luan to the plywood subflooring. I don't really want to find out how much moisture would seep through a permeable vapor-barrier under FLC. It doesn’t require primer. And then 3/8strand board over that, the room will be carpeted . Also, every piece of dimensional lumber has a natural crown to it (the direction it bows along the long edge of the wood). (Plywood ratings are calculated when the plywood is laid across the joists). Try to avoid relying on the 3/8″ plywood to level the floor. Or maybe just one Fred. 7. Thank you for your opinion on the felt. Be reasonable, attempt to use common sense. The trussed are 24OC except for an area when the egress window is located and the span is ~40″, the trusses are doubled up on each side of this. It comes in board form for those that wish to apply it to prjects such as marine use, or construction and carpentry. With all underlayments, the fastener should penetrate the underfloor by ¾” (1.9cm), but not protrude through the underfloor by more than 1/8” which is about 3.2mm. Two lengths of screws are best for this: some short 1 1/2″ inch ones and some longer 2 1/2 inch ones. Or, use a floor sander to smooth the edges of the luan. Not to mention I ended up 2" higher at doorways which is no good. Laminate flooring on an uneven ⦠For many years, the standard option was lauan plywood, also called Philippine mahogany or luan plywood, which is made with an inexpensive tropical hardwood, and therein lies its problem. The underlayment is excellent for smoothing and flattening interior surfaces before installing floor coverings. Do you know if there be any grit crunching noise from the shingles once all installed? In order to prepare the Subfloor, you must first make sure the existing subfloor is totally dry, held in tightly and structurally sound, and smooth. With a saw or oscillating tool, cut door casings and jambs to 1/16" above the level of where the finished floor will be. I have a similar problem. So glad to see your comment on how dangerous shingles are.Can not believe that people would even do this to their own family.They also want to shingle on top of the OSB double trouble,and still not talking about the fire danger. In fact, nearly every bare substrate you find in a modern house would be considered an approved substrate â shiny linoleum is not one of them (Photo 3). Sometimes, you’ll find OSB swelling at the joists where moisture contacted the subfloor. Lo and behold, the particle board subfloor is a million years old, the house has settled and who knows what else, and the floor isn’t even close to flat (much less level). Read More, Installing Subflooring for Laminate, Vinyl, Tile or Hardwood (With Luann Plywood), 1. 6. If you are working on smaller projects, where the grain of the luan wood will be out of sight, it's likely not as much of a worry for you in that case. At 100 years ago, you probably have hardwood or softwood slats running perpendicular to the joists, rather than plywood. My flooring company insists on installing luan wood as an underlayment between 3/4" subfloor and 3/4" solid hardwood floors. 2.4 - 2.4. I’m sure the joints are not airtight. (I was lucky, my dad had a piece of heavy angle iron from work that was dead straight and 8' long, this in conjunction with a 4' level made a nice long makeshift level) Also, determine if your floor is also sloping in from the opposite direction. We do not want to pull up the old floor and level it ⦠When it comes to Finishing When it comes to finishing luan plywood board, the best option is usually a dark stain and several coats of polyurethane clear finish will bring luan plywood to a high luster. With a 111 year old house I would be concerned about the weight issue as well. However, you probably should acclimate the plywood before fastening for a few days… then the floor will expand and contract at the same rate as the subfloor, and you should have no issues. Hi, I have been an avid DIYer for about 30 years now and am having a problem with a sagging floor on the second level of my hundred year old house .there is a beam under the center of the room and the two outside walls are supported all the way down to the ground, but the last wall has no support under it and it has a significant sag (about 1 1/2 inches to 2 inches, I was wondering about using a dense foam wallboard type material to fill the deepest areas and then staggering thinner material as it rises to the wall. If there are any uneven spots, you can level this with patching compound then sand joints, high spots, and patched areas until smooth. Make sure to use a proper backing cement backing applied with screws works best for these types of renovation projects. Please help. We used 3/8″ and it worked great + is much lighter. Since the fireplace in in the room, and you have a dip there, Id imagine the fireplace isnt supported properly and all that weight is adding to the load bearing wall (if that is a load bearing wall. 3) If I elect to shim or shave joists to get them nearer level with their neighbor, wouldn’t the existing OSB subfloor pulled up become unusable with the likely breakage around nails or even just nail holes as far as the strength of that OSB along the narrow edge that sits on a joist? This Akona floor leveling compound is available at Mennards for about $35 per 50lb bag. This article is part of our series on How to Install Hardwood Floors. Some of the floor boards are not so level but all are flat. Nope, shingles won’t help a bit with sound deadening. While preparing to lay 1100 square feet of hardwood flooring, we discovered significant … […]. I was planning on cutting the shingles in the exact shape of the dip using this method: After the shingles are stapled down, can we put 15lb roofing paper over the shingles AND double it as an underlayment for the laminate? Thanks for your advice :) Wood subfloors require a permeable vapor-barrier, or risk trapping moisture against the subfloor, causing rot in a much worse place than in the laminate that it is protecting. I have a very low depression in my kitchen area that is about 3/8″ to 7/16″ deep over an 8ft span. If anyone has done this before I would love some advice. 1" Luan Plywood Boards would be very thick for the type of work they are designed to complete, however if you are in a crunch and need to correct the thickness for any home project, there is always the option to gluing pieces of luan boarding together until the correct depth has been reached. Can’t wait to see how your renovation turns out! Of course before you proceed with any home improvement product, you should check with your flooring manufacturer before you proceed with installation to confirm. Self leveling gypsum like Encerwal said is a good fix but if the ripples in your decking are superficial and mild you can sand them out sometimes, and underlayment will mitigate deficiencies in the sub-floor ⦠Asphalt shingles can get heavy, however, especially when filling in a low spot. Are you putting the felt directly beneath the luan? A few thoughts for others doing this: 1. I shared your concern when when started the process, but once the shingles are locked into place beneath the plywood, they just don’t move at all. You have some settling issues. Be mindful to transition between the shingles and the subfloor as best you can. The floor is not level or square, built in the 70's. They won't check a wood subfloor for any damaged or loose places, or for any dips o… Searching around the internet for solutions, we eventually landed on this article from Ask the Builder that suggests using construction felt and asphalt roofing shingles to level an uneven plywood or OSB floor for hardwood installation. You can also do it in 2x2' or 2x4'. I assume you are going to staple the luan to the subfloor (as that’s a most common installation method) – my suspicion would be that the roofing felt would be held tight by the staples unless you are planning are major thickness. The best way to check a floor for general sloping is with a laser level. Would expandable foam have a place here? Then, crawl around the floor with a tape measure and a sharpie. We do not feel comfortable shimming and planing as we can not go the full joist lengths. Your website made it possible for me to level my floors in the kitchen, family room, foyer and hall for 3/4in hardwood flooring without any transitions, roughly 1100 square feet. Anyhow, what about using peel and stick floor tile or even sheet vinyl as an alternative to shingles? […] How to Level a Plywood or OSB Subfloor Using Asphalt … – This article is part of our series on How to Install Hardwood Floors. Lee, welcome! I want to lay 5″ x 3/4 Mahogany plank; will your system with the shingles and felt work for my issues? You’ve taken valid horrible attributes about shingles and applied it on a larger scale to create a scare tactic. It's a bit confusing, but a flat floor can still be slightly out of level and still create a good foundation for a long-lasting floor installation. In your mind, do you see any issue going 3 layers of felt – you mentioned it does not compress much at all – for narrow stretches before adding a 10mm laminate perpendicular to the joists. (don’t know if fiberglass would be better? Some pretty unflat areas, possible some joists are crown up next to others that are crown down. The reason I ask is this, I laid my level down on the floor and found the dips, then I slid a shingle under the level until it wouldn’t slide anymore, then another on top of that, until it couldn’t slide anymore, and so I ended up with maybe 15 shingles overlapping each other but spaced out creating ridges. While Luan does help in smoothing out surface floor irregularities, it is not always the best solution for all flooring types. As you known luan is a very affordable plywood product however, you must mind that it has not been rated by any plywood manufacturing association.
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